logic vs. God

this was a post of mine from a different club (Universe Origins) about how unphraseable/incomprehensible HaShem(God) is through logic and reason/rationality. I thought it applied here as well.. and was curious if anyone had any thoughts regarding this? 
[it is about this very thing: 'trying to logically understand how creation could be' that i believe Hazal said we should not ask questions prior to Bereshith] .. 

yitz..
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[ive decided to number my paragraphs because they refer back to one another.. any number in parenthesis relates to the paragraph bearing that number. eg. (2) would mean whatever is currently being discussed relates back to paragraph 2.]

1. i think my point was that any definition would fall short, you can't define something external to this universe with concepts internal to it. 

taking a stab at what i've just claimed is impossible:
2. that 'primordial spirit' to which you refer would be, to my understanding, a unit, limitless, homogenous, and complete. Further, said entity would have no 'dwelling place' as that dwelling place could then be seen to be a greater entity. So, in essence, this primordial spirit as u call it would be (in my eyes) a homogenous limitless unit that is it's own container. (of course it's inside is the same as it's outside, so there can be no outside of which to speak..)

3. this definition(2) is somewhat contradictory in our terminology, but that is where i keep from contradicting my initial statement(1): this primordial spirit of which we speak must be indefinable in this world.. every definition falls short in some or almost all aspects.

i hope that this qualifies as more specific ? 


4. now, it is my understanding.. (which I've spent over 10 years coming to (i've been thinking about this for ~half my life ) ..that one can come infinitely close (3) to a comprehension of this primordial spirit through the definition and explanation of paradoxes.. yet at some point all logic must fail.(5) (ie. however infinitely close you get, you are still infinitely distant.. )

A. I must re-emphasise that this is a comment on logic and rationality more than anything else.
I am not saying such a 'primordial spirit' is incomprehensible or unreachable.. i am saying logic and ration are not capable of reaching it/him/her.(6)

5. The reason I believe this is so, is because there is no way for the primordial entity, which i've described above, to initiate a creation. The spontaneous state-change from homogenous to non-homogenous(*see note) is unexplainable.. [just as science has difficulty describing the exact point of almost any state change--we can discuss right up to the change, and right after it.. but something happens in that instant which is unaddressable.]

6. The problem with logic and ration, as i understand it.. is that they separate things. (science breaks things down into smaller comprehensible pieces and then tries to relate them) The problem here is that I don't believe division is a way to reach/comprehend something that is not disparate. How could a heterogenous view of the world ever arrive at a homogenous one(2)? 

hope this makes my perspective more clear :)
yitz..

*note: even if one were to posit a way for the homogenous being to continue being homogenous yet allow for heterogeny to exist (in the form of some paradox or some other construct which I am unable to imagine) there is still no firm basis to understand how something infinite gains a level of finity (sorry for the vaguery--i don't know what to call it)... (unless one were to claim the universe was actually infinite in duration--which i disagree with, but find no logical faults with (from the current perspective i am discussing(5) (since there is no state-change taking place.))

Thu Aug 17, 2000 8:20 am